Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Caller: Hi. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. Why are there so many false positives? So. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. They kill big animals. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. Well thanks for sharing. And it was unmistakable. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. I can't. So. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. Absolutely. Post your sightings and NH photos here! But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. Let's look for other evidence. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. 44-H Links. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Rick van de Poll: Yes. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. I mean it wasn't your idea. Caller: Oh hi. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. Thanks for calling. And why would they what. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. They absolutely do. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. The report came in from a conservation officer. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. The brother and sister big cats have lived . I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. Chartered: 1973 . HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! By Eric Orff. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. How far were you from this cat. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? I found a second scat scent both to him. They were able to do all that by genetics. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. So Michael follows with the question. Is this kind of a typical story. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. Do cougars live in New England? So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. Does not test random Scouts. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. Sam Evans Brown. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. There was a lot of DNA evidence. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. And you know all that. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. Can you look into this picture. But no proof was offered. Contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. Your support makes this news available to everyone. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. She is renowned for tracking. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Yes. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. New Hampshire Public Radio | You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. Thank you very much for being here. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. Really appreciate it. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Let us know your story and share your photos. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. Right. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! John is calling from Bennington. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? It's you know I recognized their report and. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. Caller: I do. Mike you're on the air. Do they travel. John you're on the air. Yes and you want to share what you learned. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. And they were using all the habitat. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. Caller: Absolutely. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. About Lions. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. I'm Peter B yellow. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. So do they. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. So there's even debate about that very subject. Thank you. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. He said matter of fact I do. Rick your thoughts. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. They just end up in these places. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. You need a permit to have that. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. So what counts as verifiable evidence? Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. That's too big for Bobcat. Have you seen one. brings a lot of. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. So now what's going on. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Give today. There's no attraction. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Yes. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. They don't know the direction they're going. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. Part II. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? Patrick Tate: Well. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. Peter Biello: Hmm. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. We're not in the woods. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. No doubt in my mind it was. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. Thank you. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Mountain Lions in NH. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. 1,470 likes. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. OK. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. Maps of Trapping Take by Town 1994 to 2004. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. Peter Biello: Yeah. New Hampshire Public Radio | The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. I mean they're a survivor. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. N.H. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible..